Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  9

  All Conti docs & Zalkin's out-of-court settlement docs now on watchtowerdocuments.com

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  they are pdf, searchable and downloadable.. http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/cases/zalkin.html.

  http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/cases/conti.html.

  barbara and joe.

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  Doubting Bro

  Thanks guys. Marking for later.
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  I stand corrected on the Swaggart deal. I knew it was tax related but it was so long ago that I had forgotten it was a state sales tax issue. But, the IRS does have the ability to audit religious organizations

  On amicus briefs, I'll bet this wasn't the first time but they'll say they need to fight any challenge to "religious freedom" because they could be next. From a practical standpoint, that makes sense but it certainly doesn't jive with their teachings. But then again, they do a lot of things that they would hammer the rank and file if they did.

  I'll bet that on the WTS appeal of the Conti case, there will be other religious organizations that file amicus briefs since clergy privilege is likely to be a focal point of the appeal.
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  Solider77 - I 100% agree!!
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  188

  About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

  soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

  anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

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  Doubting Bro

  King Solomon,

  In the US, the IRS does have the authority to audit a religious organization. Here's the link from the IRS site:

  http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/article/0,,id=179679,00.html

  This describes the church audit process

  http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/article/0,,id=181365,00.html

  This describes the reasonable belief definition.

  PS - The whole change from charging for literature in the early 90s was a direct result of the IRS investigation of Jimmy Swaggart's operations who was charging for literature. I believe they ruled that activity to be for-profit and therefore not tax exempt. The WTS changed to a donation arrangement after the Surpreme Court ruled the IRS had the authority to do this.
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  62

  Beards are evil, but do you know why?

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as a witness, i knew several men who attempted to grow beards.

  when they did, and attended meetings, it did not take long to be talked to by elders and told, "as spiritual men, they should not display an outward form of rebellion.

  " why was this a form of rebellion?

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  Doubting Bro

  I never realized the original reason. Great thread
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  33

  Penn State pays for covering up Sandusky crimes, BIG TIME

  by talesin in

  1. social
  2. current

  this sends a clear message to other universities who may be harboring child molesters.. excerpt:.

  the sanctions by the governing body of college sports, which capped eight months of turmoil on the central pennsylvania campus, stopped short of delivering the "death penalty" of shutting down the sport.

  but the ncaa hit penn state with $60 million in fines, ordered it out of the postseason for four years, and will cap scholarships at 20 below the normal limit for four years.. other sanctions five years' probation, and the ncaa also said that any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.. ncaa president mark emmert announced the staggering sanctions at a news conference in indianapolis.

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  Doubting Bro

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hard-hits/post/penn-state-community-must-now-start-to-fix-what-went-wrong/2012/07/23/gJQADuqg4W_blog.html

  Sorry left the link off.

  Anytime the NCAA brings sanctions against a school program, innocent players are impacted. Yet, that's the only way they can police their sport. Because if you just throw out the kid that accepted the alumni payment or the coach that engaged in the improper recruiting practice, you do nothing. The head coach will assign that duty to an expendable assistant. Players are a dime a dozen and can easily be replaced. And if you're good enough like Cam Newton or Reggie Bush, no worries there either. Nothing will happen while you're in school. But, if you hammer the whole school, then you get peoples attention and the cost of getting caught becomes high enough to dissuade some.

  With the state of big time college sports, the NCAA has had it share of issues. They gave the dealth penalty for 3 YEARS to SMU for paying their players. 3 years!!! I'm sure there were freshmen there who didn't break the rules but ended up not playing.

  Was that fair? Probably not. But, it was really the administration that failed in the SMU case and the Penn St case because they allowed the bad behavior to continue.

  Most of this was a reaction to the many scandals that the NCAA has been faced with over the last few years. It's a PR move and a multi-million dollar enterprise that doesn't give a crap about any college kids ability to play a sport.
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  33

  Penn State pays for covering up Sandusky crimes, BIG TIME

  by talesin in

  1. social
  2. current

  this sends a clear message to other universities who may be harboring child molesters.. excerpt:.

  the sanctions by the governing body of college sports, which capped eight months of turmoil on the central pennsylvania campus, stopped short of delivering the "death penalty" of shutting down the sport.

  but the ncaa hit penn state with $60 million in fines, ordered it out of the postseason for four years, and will cap scholarships at 20 below the normal limit for four years.. other sanctions five years' probation, and the ncaa also said that any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.. ncaa president mark emmert announced the staggering sanctions at a news conference in indianapolis.

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  Doubting Bro

  Lavar Arrington agrees with me in his article in the Washington Post:

  Penn State community must now start to fix what went wrong

  By LaVar Arrington

  I have to swallow the fact that as of today, I have no wins as a starter for the Penn State football team. And you know what? It doesn’t matter.

  The penalties handed down by the NCAA are harsh enough to bring down an entire football program. But they are not enough to bring down Penn State. Many may feel that football defined us; we know different.

  Our way at Penn State is education first, and everything else after that. It’s our task as alumni to make that message clearer than ever before.

  There was a failure by individuals in powerful positions at the school, and it has impacted everyone from Penn State, including those who played on its football team. We shoulder those mistakes because we must; it’s the right way. We didn’t make this mess, but we can now start to fix it.

  Like it or not, Monday’s action by the NCAA against the school bring this entire fiasco a step nearer to closure.

  I believe it is the duty of the Paterno family to continue to fight for Joe Paterno’s reputation. If they are successful, they will have their moment to set the record straight about why Joe should not have been judged the way he was. However, that’s a war for those who were closest to him and the situation surrounding his demise. Same goes for Graham Spanier or any other school officials that are fighting for vindication. That’s just the reality of this, nothing personal.

  As for the punishment handed down Monday, my thinking has been this: Whatever the punishment, get it over with so everyone involved can close this chapter and begin the rebuilding process. A strong punishment was necessary. Otherwise I don’t think it would have been accepted by those looking on from around the country.

  Now the school, students and the State College community can face the dawn of a new day. Sure it won’t be easy moving on from here, but sometimes turning away from the past is the only way to see a bright future.

  As an alumnus of Penn State, I’m not turning my back on my school. I believe responsible Penn Staters believe we serve each other and our institution and that to me means always striving for excellence, having integrity, respect and dignity in our daily approaches to life. I really think it’s important that it’s understood that we acknowledge horrible things happened at our school. We do so in order to make it clear that we don’t condone these actions or blindly support our school.

  Sure Joe Paterno was the catalyst in keeping us all motivated to be great Penn Staters, and it hurts to see all the failures and bad things that have happened. It’s sad to know so many suffered and now many more are suffering in the aftermath of what took place.

  If Penn State is to ever have a chance at restoring its reputation it starts with one positive action at a time.

  Change obviously needed to happen and from this point on I think it’s clear that the representation of Penn State falls on the ones who matter the most an entire community and student body, not a coach or a program but everyone.

  Everyone won’t be perfect. People will still fall short of representing themselves and our institution the right way. Yet those who are truly committed to good will stand in there through the good and the bad.

  Right now is the time for the Penn State community to stand up for its principles and beliefs and impact change so that things like this don’t happen again. It’s time to restore the pride of our school.
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  20

  Will Watchtower Bible and Tract Society staff or Jehovah's Witnesses ELDERS be convicted next ?

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  about an hour ago the first criminal conviction of clergy involved in child abuse cover-up occured!

  considering the power of the the catholic church, and the percentage of catholics on the jury this is incredible!!!!!

  how long do you think it will be before before elders and bethelites among jehovahs's witnesses are convicted of criminal conspiracy with no jehovah's witnesses in the jury pool ?

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  Doubting Bro

  I think that where the WTS is exposed is in situations where 1)they were aware that an elder was abusing kids yet allowed him to continue and 2) where they delete someone for child abuse then reappoint that individual at some point in the future to a position of authority. By elder, I also mean CO, DO, special pioneer,or missionary.

  I wonder how the service desk makes decisions on whether to delete someone or reappoint someone? I know the locals make recommendations that are signed off by the CO but in a reappointment situation, wouldn't the service desk have access to the "database" and have full knowledge of what the individual did?

  Does the person on the service desk have the authority or do they have to confer with a branch committee or something? I know the appointments/deletions of elders remain a branch specific task so the main organization isn't involved.

  I could really see individual BOEs and likely COs having the most exposure. The case would need to be clear cut like the Lynn case in order to get a criminal conviction.

  I think its an overall positive development. If a person's sense of right and wrong doesn't force them into action, maybe the threat of jail time will do it.
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  33

  Penn State pays for covering up Sandusky crimes, BIG TIME

  by talesin in

  1. social
  2. current

  this sends a clear message to other universities who may be harboring child molesters.. excerpt:.

  the sanctions by the governing body of college sports, which capped eight months of turmoil on the central pennsylvania campus, stopped short of delivering the "death penalty" of shutting down the sport.

  but the ncaa hit penn state with $60 million in fines, ordered it out of the postseason for four years, and will cap scholarships at 20 below the normal limit for four years.. other sanctions five years' probation, and the ncaa also said that any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.. ncaa president mark emmert announced the staggering sanctions at a news conference in indianapolis.

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  Doubting Bro

  Vacating wins was a shot at Paterno. The NCAA doesn't want their all time winning coach to be a person that sheilded pedophiles. It's a PR move for the NCAA. Paterno is dead, so it doesn't really matter to him.

  From a PR stand-point, they had to do something. I've been reading twitter feeds from some former PSU players that don't really have an issue with the punishment. While the kids on the current football team will lose an opportunity to play in a bowl, they can transfer if they wish. Also, this is not the first time the NCAA has taken the opportunity to play bowl games away. USC, Ohio State, Georgia Tech have all been punished in the recent past and no one seemed to have an issue with that although kids that didn't do anything were impacted. When you are on a team, the actions of one impact the entire team.

  There is no way the NCAA could punish the school for its lack of institutional control and it's callous disregard for the kids who Sandusky used the football program to entrap without impacting students. But, they're free to leave, it's not like anyone is forcing them to stay at the school. That's what I don't really understand about people's objection to the penalty. Playing college football is not a constitutional right. It's a privilege that the majority of high school football players never get a shot at. So, if some of the Penn St players are unable to find another school to play at, are they really going to be scarred for life? If they can't find another program to play in, odds are they were not going to have a professional football career anyway.
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  114

  Watchtower and Anonymous Links, Updates, News, etc.

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i wanted to consolidate a lot of the information about the attack of anonymous against the watchtower society.

  if you disagree with the tactics of anonymous, that's fine.

  this information may still be useful as the public is made more aware of the the dangerous policies of the watchtower society.

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  Doubting Bro

  Me too! Can someone copy and paste?? Please??